Friday, January 18, 2008

Saturday Reading

By David Hambling EmailJanuary 18, 2008

American military researchers are working to uncover and harness the most terrifying chemical imaginable: that most primal odor, the scent of fear.
Scream
Pheromones are chemicals released by animals as signals to their own kind: for sex, for territorial marking, and more. They're often detected in the olfactory membranes. But there's more to pheromones than attraction. Many animals have an alarm pheromone which is used to signal danger; aphids, for example, use it to cause their fellow lice to flee.

Now, the US Army is trying to track down and harness people's smell of fear. The military has backed a study on the "Identification and Isolation of Human Alarm Pheromones," which "focused on the Preliminary Identification of Steroids of Interest in Human Fear Sweat." The so-called "skydiving protocol" was the researchers' method of choice.

The authors collected sweat, urine, blood, saliva, ECG, respiration, and self-report measures in 20 subjects (n=11 males and n=9 females) before, during, and immediately following their first-time tandem skydive, as well as before, during, and immediately following their running on a treadmill for the same period of time. Measurements between the test (skydive) and control (exercise) conditions were made on consecutive days, each experiment precisely matched to the minute between subjects and between conditions to prevent diurnal confounds. Emotional states were monitored using brief standardized questionnaires. For most of the observed compounds, men showed an increase in the compound emission during acute emotional stress, while women showed either no change or a decrease in emission of the compound.

In a lecture given at a 2007 Congress on Stress, the researchers hint at what their study found:

Our findings indicate that there may be a hidden biological component to human social dynamics, in which emotional stress is, quite literally, “contagious."



@DANGER ROOM

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Clicking the lighted words leads to some interesting reading, I have merely scratched the surface myself but progress I shall despite my minds tendency to wander on to other things.

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By JEFF D'ALESSIO
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 01/18/08

The flurries won't start falling across metro Atlanta until Saturday afternoon, according to the latest forecast from the National Weather Service.

At 10 a.m. Saturday, forecaster Vaughn Smith told the AJC the Weather Service had downgraded its metro Atlanta forecast from 3 inches to 1 inch for most of the area.

*little nippy out there*

.

64 comments:

Jeanne said...

-10 in the heartland.

DEN said...

Be thankful you are not in Duluth right now:
A Few Clouds
Temp: -19°
Wind: Northwest 15 mph
Wind Chill: -44°

DEN said...

And in Winnipeg:

Clear
-31 °C

Dew Point
-36 °C

WindChill
-43 °C

Wind
15 km/hr W


(-31 degree Celsius = -23.8 degree Fahrenheit)

DEN said...

This will warm you up:

Arizona Gov. Janet Napolitano says the deployment of new photo radar or other speed enforcement technology on state highways is all about public safety. But her proposed state budget counts on the anticipated speeding fines to help erase a projected revenue shortfall.
Big Brother empties your wallet

micki said...

STRONG HIGH PRESSURE IS EXPECTED TO BUILD OVER THE INTERIOR OF BRITISH COLUMBIA ON SUNDAY...BRINGING THE POTENTIAL FOR STRONG OUTFLOW WINDS THROUGH THE FRASER VALLEY AND ACROSS THE NORTHWEST OLYMPIC PENINSULA. THE STRONGEST NORTHEASTERLY WINDS WILL MOST LIKELY IMPACT WESTERN WHATCOM COUNTY...

THE HIGH WINDS HAVE THE POTENTIAL TO PRODUCE STRONG DAMAGING WINDS.
+++++

Batten down the hatches!

micki said...

Balmy here, however...in the 30s. (above, not below) :-))

DEN said...

Auburn right now: 43° Clear as of 7:53 AM PST on January 19, 2008

55 for a high and partly cloudy or partly sunny depending on how you look at it.

DEN said...

The F22 fighter in action

Brought to you by your friends at the Military Industrial Complex.

Jeanne said...

I just wrote this to Ted Kennedy. He pays attention so I write to him.

I work in a clinic in MN at the front desk. What I see is human tragedy. The numbers of people who walk in without health care who are working full time jobs is astounding. I also see many man immigrants who come in with state health care. It's fine that they have state health care but why are working, taxpaying adults and their CHILDREN, going without health care? I just had a patient in the other day who was a teacher. Her health care was too expensive. Her husband had diabetes and cancer. She was bringing in her son who also had no health care. There was another guy who came in. Self employed. Made $10000 too much a year. His son has autism and yet they have no health care. I don't get it. Only in America can we twist our logic enough to make it ok for an industry to take in a huge profit during a time of deep recession at the expense of the people who make this country work, the hard working Americans.

carey said...

Brandon had a splendid first party last night. This birthday will go on for several weeks filled with activities. This is the first birthday in a while that B-Man's not sick. Thank you to everyone, he's so enjoying himself.

He's too big damnit. It's going too fast.

Oh my God Jeanne. Den. All of you must be sooooo cold. Is Alan? Probably.

A "balmy" 30 degrees? Pleeeeez Micksters!

carey said...

Jeanne--what a compelling letter. Of course Ted will read it. He's such a good man, isn't he.

We had decadent Chocolate Mousse cake last night--oh my God--the utter delight of it! I can barely move this morning from the chocolate malaise. I had that same malaise after Christmas too. Rich food slows you down.

I don't care.

The thing of it is fellow oldsters. Martin (my bro-in-law), Winke (sis) and I all indulged in the "cake" alias chocolate wonderland of different tastes. We all had upset tummies afterwards, immediately. Brandon ate three huge pieces and merrily rolled along.

We couldn't even indulge and enjoy. It upset our tummies. Oh, I just don't like that at all!!!!!

carey said...

I thought of Obama all day yesterday, well all the candidates. I know most are praying for Edwards to at least get 15% of the vote today. That way he'll get delegates.

Obama, yes. Ive had a change of heart about him with Winke. She sees his Reagan remark as quite clever. Sis can be surprising wise politically. He's taking a route that will get a black man elected. I'm not saying this eloquently, cuz I'm chocolated-out. I think now, Obama is playing an extrememly smart game. He's touching and courting the Independents. He's courting their vote. He's "centerizing". Methinks he's smarter than the rest of us whities. What'd ya think?


I've written of this--that Obama, like Clinton, always must dial in their race or gender. Always. We know that. Why didn't I realize, of course! That's what Obama's up to.

I watched him again late last night. I think Wink's right.

DEN said...

Huckkkabee

MIKE HUCKABEE'S WHITE SUPREMACIST LINKS...
As South Carolina's Republican primary election draws nearer, Mike Huckabee has ratcheted up his appeals to the racial nationalism of white evangelicals. "You don't like people from outside the state coming in and telling you what to do with your flag," the former Arkansas governor told a Myrtle Beach crowd on January 17, referring to the Confederate flag. "If somebody came to Arkansas and told us what to do with our flag, we'd tell them what to do with the pole. That's what we'd do."
@ THE NATION

Justa good ole boy!

carey said...

I guess I'm really holding out hope Edwards makes a great showing today in Nevada. Wished on a star last night just like I did for Jesse Jackson when he won Michigan, was it in '88?

Saw this in my local paper by Ruth Marcus.

Not All Rests on Tsunami Tuesday

In a close race, the rules make it difficult for a single candidate to pile up a big enough margin to amass the necessary
number of delegates.


_______________________________

Den,

Hucksters is one mad chicken running every which way but loose with Chuck Norris. Seriously yuck-city.

South Carolina is always charming to watch during a campaign, isn't it? So pleasant, the shit that comes out of their disgusting racist mouths.

B-Man loves his cards! Oh my God--he's 13.

DEN said...

More butt-ugly truth:

The idea under which Bushenomics was sold is this:

* The rich are the investor class.
* If the rich have more money, they will invest more.
* Their investments will create more business.
* Those businesses will create more wealth, thus improving everyone's lives and making the nation stronger. They will also create new and better jobs.

Whether or not the people who say such things truly believe them, I cannot say. But that's their pitch, and the media certainly seems to buy it, as do most of the establishment economists.

A more realistic -- and less idealistic -- view of Bushenomics is that the Bush administration and its cronies came at the economy with the attitude of oilmen.

* They inherited a vastly wealth country.
* They looked at it like the oil under the Alaskan wilderness. They craved to pump it out, turn it into cash and grab as much of that cash as possible.

@ALTERNET

Should be AmBusheconomics, looting and pillaging the citizens.

carey said...

The disussion of the budget, ay, ay, ay. Fuck that crap.

I'm sorry. Here at DWF we know it's been here for a bit already, this horrible recession. Well, it ain't ever coming back, it it? Financial well-being--that's a goner. (When did you ever have it?) That certain sense of security that we all need to maintain sanity.

Fearing a Different Kind of Recession

Republicans and Democrats argue over whose taxes should be cut the most and which projects should be funded, but, under public pressure to do something, they usually find some mutually acceptable midpoint and enact a stimulus package. Even in today's hyperpartisan Washington, the odds still favor such a deal.

This time, though, don't expect that to be the end of the story – because the coming recession will not be normal, and our economy is not fundamentally sound. This time around, the nation will have to craft new versions of some of the reforms that Franklin Roosevelt created to steer the nation out of the Great Depression – not because anything like a major depression looms but because we face an economy that's been warped by two developments we've not seen since FDR's time.

carey said...

THINK EDWARDS!!

He must have a good showing. He must.

Off to exercise and praying for Edwards.

carey said...

Think HUCK-ASS for South Carolina.

I'm afraid of McCain. Ain't you? He can beat us. Yes.

F**king A--just give me a Dem for '08. A Dem pleeeeeese!

Gerald said...

I hope this post links. Posters, you must listen to Bill Moyers Journal!!! January 18, 2008 was a great journal. If you are pressed for time, please listen to his guest, David Cay Johnston. He wrote the book, "Free Lunch." After listening to him you will know why everyday is BOHICA day for you and me.

Bend Over Here It Comes Again

Carey said...

Ron Paul gets a 14% in Nevada.

Stupid bastard. Romney wins it, I think I just heard. We knew he would.

Carey said...

I'm going to tell you one more time. My stomach is upset, STILL!

I can't eat chocoate decadaence anymore? NO!

Carey said...

Thank you climate change, now, snow in Atlanta. I know you've been writing of the strange temps Den.

I get a little scared of this. It's coming so fast.

Carey said...

Gerald,

I have two Bill Moyers shows on the DVR. I haven't had much time, but never miss Bill.

micki said...

My stomach is upset, STILL!

Carey, maybe it's not the chocolate, but the icky politics!

micki said...

Here's another Bill Moyers' piece that puts a current political dust-up into its proper perspective

Alan said...

All of you must be sooooo cold. Is Alan? Probably

It's not bad here. Yesterday was nasty though... cold and raining. Today it's sunshine with a high of 52, low tonight of 31.

micki said...

In the Democratic race, a candidate needs 2,025 delegates to secure the nomination.

As of now, Clinton has 187, Obama 89 and Edwards 50, according to the Associated Press.

On the Republican side, a candidates will need 1,191 delegates to lock up the nomination.

Currently Romney leads with 42 delegates, to 32 for Huckabee and 13 for McCain.
+++++++

It ain't over 'til the Fat Lady sings.

+++++++
Jeanne -- you've described the situation well -- real people, real problems.
+++++++

Alan, 31 is COLD in Texas! But, I remember those Blue Northers -- and 31 ain't nuthing!

David B. Benson said...

Darth Cheney infects even the Secret Service agents:

Secret Service: detailed look at BIG turmoil

micki said...

Rudy is going to make his come-back in Florida. hahaha

Yeah, and Jeri will wake up Fred when he wins a delegate or two.

Go, Huck! Rah rah, South Carolina! Win it for the rednecks and the religionists!

micki said...

Boy. Wouldn't it be neat if Darth cheney had to be deposed on the SS thing.

{ò,ó} said...

It's 11° and windy. *shiver*

Carey said...

Whaaat? MSNBC projects Clinton as Nevada Caucus winner.

Already.

Carey said...

Carol,

You poor thing with the cold.

I don't know about that TV show you posted. Looks scary. I don't want to think about that. Do you? Yike city.

Carey said...

I can't speak.

With 59% of votes in, Edwards has maybe 5%.

Carey said...

I can't take it. Down to 4%.

micki said...

Exit poll stats -- this is interesting, IMO -- if it could be applied across the states, it would indicate that Hillary has broader appeal than Obama

Carey -- Nevada has only 25 delegates from the caucuses today. John's not out yet. Now, if Edwards tanks in SC next week --- THEN, he's out. But, not yet.

I don't think he'll drop out before then, unless he has a poll that shows he'll take a beating in SC.

David B. Benson said...

Local farmers sell their wheat down the river. The Portland price is now up to over an astounding $15 a bushel! The farmers who sold all theirs last August at around $5--6 (which seemed high at the time) probably now wish they had kept some.

In the same interval, the price of anhydrous ammonia ferilizer has more than doubled.

"This has been a remarkable year," Ruhoff said.

micki said...

Will bread soon cost $6.00 a loaf?

Or will all the wheat go to brewing beer?

And beer will be $6.00 a bottle?

:-)

(Maybe some beers cost more than $6.00 a bottle already??!)

micki said...

We need a candidate who will pledge to keep beer afforable and plentiful.

A modern day version of a chicken in every pot.

micki said...

...and an Oldsmobile in every garage.

:-))

micki said...

A chicken in every pot and a car in every garage.

- Herbert Hoover, 1928, 9 months before the crash

micki said...

Dr. B -- appears you were right about union rank and file being independent-minded:

Despite Obama's support of the Culinary Workers, it was Clinton who dominated the nine Strip casinos -- winning Bellagio and Paris among others. Obama won only Caesars.

David B. Benson said...

In the local grocery store, the price of some imported beers is already a bit over $14 per six-pack. That's due to the decline of the US dollar against the euro.

Despite the current price of wheat, the price of bread will not rise so dramatically. Very little of the cost of a loaf in the grocery store is due to the wheat in it.

David B. Benson said...

But elsewhere in the world:

Riots over the price of cooking oil

carey said...

The exit polls are very interesting for Clinton. I don't know, she has super delegates and she's popular in California.

Just ruminating, listening to MSNBC coverage. Dumb-ass stupid Republicans, aren't they? Just old jerk faces.

Rummy's the jerkiest, Huck-ass the maddest.

Simple statements and name-calling I shall engage in cuz Repugs deserve it. God, they're stupid.

Gerald said...

Please excuse my copy of the whole article!!!

Ailing GI's Deployed to War Zones
By Erin Emery
The Denver Post

Thursday 17 January 2008

Fort Carson sent ailing GI's to meet deployment goals, notes say.
Colorado Springs - Fort Carson sent soldiers who were not medically fit to war zones last month to meet "deployable strength" goals, according to e-mails obtained by The Denver Post.

One e-mail, written Jan. 3 by the surgeon for Fort Carson's 3rd Brigade Combat Team, says: "We have been having issues reaching deployable strength, and thus have been taking along some borderline soldiers who we would otherwise have left behind for continued treatment."

Capt. Scot Tebo's e-mail was, in part, a reference to Master Sgt. Denny Nelson, a 19-year Army veteran, who was sent overseas last month despite doctors' orders that he not run, jump or carry more than 20 pounds for three months because of a severe foot injury.

Nelson took the medical report to the Soldier Readiness Process, or SRP, site on Fort Carson, where health-care professionals recommended Nelson stay home.

The soldier, who has a Bronze Star and is a member of the Mountain Post's Audie Murphy Chapter, was sent to Kuwait on Dec. 29.

Nelson says he was one of at least 52 soldiers deployed who should not have been, and a veterans group says the military is endangering soldiers to meet its goals.

But Fort Carson officials say they do not believe unfit soldiers have been sent to the Middle East and say there is no repercussion for not meeting goals. They say the battalion commander has the final decision as to who is deployed.

On Jan. 5, a physician in Kuwait sent a strongly worded e-mail to Tebo urging him to send Nelson back to the U.S.

"This soldier should NOT have even left CONUS (the United States).... In his current state, he is not full mission capable and in his current condition is a risk to further injury to himself, others and his unit," said the physician, Maj. Thomas Schymanski.

Nelson, 38, had fractured his leg and destroyed the tendons that hold the bones in his feet together while jumping on his daughter's trampoline.

He arrived back at Fort Carson on Sunday.

"I just want to make sure these soldiers get back safe. I got back, and the only reason I got back safe is because I'm an E-8 (master sergeant). If I was a private or a specialist, I guarantee you, I'd be in Iraq," he said. "If nothing comes out of this other than those soldiers coming back home before one of them gets killed, then I can sleep at night. But God forbid if something happens, and I didn't do anything...."

Nelson went through Fort Carson's Soldier Readiness Process, a clearinghouse where legal, medical and financial records are examined, and it was recommended that he stay home.

No Number on "No Go's"

Fort Carson could not say Wednesday how many soldiers were considered "no-go's" by medical professionals at the SRP site but were ultimately sent overseas.

"The SRP, what they do is they screen soldiers for deployment, ... and if a soldier is identified as a no-go in the SRP site, then the soldier is seen by a specialist," said Maj. Harvinder Singh, the 3rd Brigade Combat Team's rear detachment commander.

Nelson said he was not seen by a specialist or any medical professional after the SRP site identified him as a no-go.

Nelson was to serve as a liaison officer and assist soldiers in transitioning from Kuwait to Iraq.

Singh said he does not believe medically unfit soldiers have been deployed to Iraq. He said soldiers with medical issues are only sent to theater if there is a light-duty job for them and medical services are available in theater. He said 3,500 of the brigade's 3,700 soldiers were deployed. The others probably stayed home because medical services could not be found for them in theater.

Goals for Commanders

Dee McNutt, spokeswoman for Fort Carson, said she knew of no Army policy that defined "deployable strength."

"Every commander has a goal, and you try to achieve that goal, ... but there is no repercussion if you don't hit that goal," Singh said.

Col. James Terrio, deputy commander for clinical services at Evans Army Community Hospital, said, "The issue with who you take, it is the commander's decision." A commander, he said, is familiar with the level of danger and the needs of the unit. A job in Kuwait, for instance, would not require a soldier to wear Kevlar, and a job as a liaison officer would not require running or walking.

Of the 1.6 million service members who have served in Iraq, 34 percent have served two tours in Iraq or Afghanistan.

Paul Sullivan, executive director of Veterans for Common Sense, said: "The military must follow existing law and examine our soldiers before they deploy to the Iraq and Afghanistan war zones. And the military must stop sending soldiers with physical or psychological conditions that require medical treatment into the war zones because this endangers the soldier, the unit and the mission."

Nelson said units are being deployed so rapidly, with 15 months in theater and 12 months off, that "they're having trouble getting them healthy."

Nelson said that when he arrived at Camp Buehring in Kuwait, he was told he would be going to Iraq sooner than he thought.

"The agreement was that I was going to be in Kuwait for four or five months, do physical therapy, and then when I'm healthy, I go forward to Iraq," Nelson said. "I'm not going to Iraq not being able to wear any of my gear, not carry a weapon. I become a liability to everybody around me because if they get mortared, they're going to have to look out for me because obviously, I can't run. I can't look out for myself. Now I've got soldiers worrying about my welfare, instead of their own."

Nelson said there were two soldiers deployed with a torn rotator cuff. Another soldier was sent overseas who had mental-health issues, and another suffered from nerve damage to his groin area and had been taking morphine for seven months. When that soldier went to a clinic in Iraq to ask for more pain medication, medical professionals said he could not have it and he was sent home, according to Nelson.

Instead of going to Iraq, he went to another Kuwait post, Camp Arifjan.

Nelson said he was told by superiors that he would be in charge of 52 soldiers who were receiving medical treatment.

"I expected to find a whole bunch of people, but when I got there, they were all gone. They were already all in Iraq," Nelson said.

Those soldiers would have received medical treatment in Iraq, said Singh.

Fort Carson was at the heart of a congressional investigation last year after reports revealed soldiers were not receiving quality medical care after returning from Iraq. Some soldiers with post-traumatic stress disorder said they were punished, rather than treated, or thrown out of the Army for "personality" problems.

-------

David B. Benson said...

Blue Moon time!

sore loser said...

I believe, then, with this projected win in South Carolina, you've got your Repug nominee, McCain.

Couple that with a "terrorist" attack, or whatever they come up with, and it's President McCain.

Just think, pretty gosh darn soon now we'll be treated to a Rove-handled McCain. Uh-oh.

I thought Nevada would come out a little better than that for Edwards, gall darn it.

Carey said...

Blue moon means two full moons in a month?

From the War Room in Salon:

One of these things is not like the other

Bloomberg, Jan. 18: "Something about South Carolina brings out the beast in U.S. presidential campaigns. In the last week before its Jan. 19 primary, the Palmetto State is awash in stealth e-mail attacks, fake polling calls and other dirty tricks reminiscent of the scurrilous rumors that scuttled John McCain's candidacy in 2000."

Politico, Jan. 18: "The national media thinks John McCain is under siege again, and his campaign is only too happy to help reporters file their stories ... The truth is, not that many nasty things are going on in 2008, certainly not compared to the bare-knuckled 2000 GOP presidential primary here, and probably not much more so than in your garden-variety campaign for elected office."

― Tim Grieve

_______________________________

Now, as probable Repug nominee, McCain will sadistically allow the same tactics to be used against whichever Dem is finally chosen.

Carey said...

Micki,

Thank you for the Bill Moyers essay on Johnson and Martin Luther King. I want my son to evntually understand this very, very important history lesson.

DEN said...

Levity break!

RETIREMENT PLANNING FOR 2008

If you had purchased $1000.00 of Nortel stock one year ago, it would
now
be worth $49.00.

With Enron, you would have had $16.50 left of the original $1000.00.

With WorldCom, you would have had less than $5.00 left.

If you had purchased $1000 of Delta Air Lines stock you would have
$49.00 left.

But, if you had purchased $1,000.00 worth of beer one year ago, drank
all the beer, then turned in the cans for the aluminum recycling, you
would have had $214.00.

So, based on the above, the best current investment advice is to drink
heavily and recycle.

It's called the 401-Keg Plan.

I'm in!

micki said...

Den, I'll pass on your investment advice to Bill.

He always appreciates that kind of advice!

DEN said...

Beer is food!

micki said...

Carey, I was disappointed, too, to see how poorly Edwards did in Nevada.

Trying to figure out what this means...

Are people getting nervous about an Obama nomination, so Edwards supporters decided to coalesce around Clinton for a common end, even though they have differing POVs on some issues?

His low turnout is astounding.

Then again, maybe it's just a function of the ridiculous caucus process.

micki said...

Brain food?

micki said...

Sore loser,

You are very astute.

But, to ensure a President McCain, imagine that he picks Huckabee as his running mate.

No, no....don't say he wouldn't...McCain/Huckabee would be the perfect ticket to cover a lot of their bases.

Carey said...

I haven't seen anything yet to help understand whether it's the caucus format in Nevada or what?

Don't know, I keep working on it but don't get anywhere. I expect it must have something to do with Nevada's setup.

I mean the polls going in showed an amorphous sort of messy tie. I do know, for the life of me, I could not figure out exactly how the things were set up. I think there's got to be coutervailing factors galore here we don't know about.

Still it comes down to this--Nevada, give or take it, things don't look good for Edwards. I'm inclined to think Nevada may have been worthless as a test. Or is that sour grapes?

However, we've got South Carolina looming. That looks to be a serious clash between Obama and Clinton, dang it.

I think, but don't know, does Edwards have something up his sleeve or in mind? I just don't know what that might be.

Free associating here, but to no advantage.

Carey said...

Oh my God, Michaelyn. Don't say that--a McCain/Huckabee ticket.

No.

Carey said...

I forgot to say that your post about 401-keg was adorable Den.

DEN said...

Keep you from starvation, food.

"Q HOW long could you live on beer alone?

A BEER is made from malted barley, which is rich in some vitamins.

In fact, a pint can provide more than five per cent of the daily recommended intake B9, B6 and B2 - almost the same as a slice of brown bread.

It also contains 40g of sugar per litre, in the form of maltose and glucose, and it's 90 per cent water so you won't go thirsty.

But the alcohol dehydrates you and you'll miss out on other vitamins like A, C and D.

No-one knows how long a human can survive on just beer, but it's not a good idea to try to find out.

The alcohol may take your mind off food, but it would eventually destroy your liver."

@ THE MIRROR UK.
That and other silliness can be read there.

Of course you can live on it! don't listen to them Bill, they are idiots.

2 per day is OK, keeps the prostate in shape.

micki said...

2 per day is OK, keeps the prostate in shape.

Well, that....and lycopene. Gotta have those tomatoes!

Den, you should start a blog on MALE NUTRITIONAL ADVICE. Bill would agree with you, I know.

DEN said...

Beerblog for Men.

DEN said...

zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Carey said...

Tell me, where in the heck did a measley 4%, really more like 3%, where did that come from?

That's really tiny. Whaaaat? Could the caucus setup cause that odd result--doesn't seem like it.